CC,2012—You may try and BS these folks with your long-winded inside D C talking points and links you have been instructed to use but I have worked with the engineering group currently conctructing a clean-coal facility in an area of far SW VA county called Virginia City—This facility will produce hugh amounts of electrical energy and clean natural gas while powered by materials dumped or unusable by previous coal facilities—This while surpassing emmission standards and supplying jobs now and in the future for local people whose families were used, abused, and deserted by the Greedy Corporate America you so strongly support—

This has been reported many times by the very same papers who support this forum—DO YOU EVEN BOTHER TO READ ANY OF THESE PAPERS?

The incentives you mention are already in place—Your ideas of “let’s wait another 10 years” or “Give Corporate America more tax breaks or More of American tax money”, Follow Lock-Step with todays GOP ,who have lost both there vision of what’s best for America and it’s people-Todays GOP is about lining their pockets and what is best for Greedy CEOs and the Wealthy—At the expense of Health-Reform, Global Warming, and the true welfare of ALL American people—

YO’ BIGGEST FEAR IS THAT OBAMA AND THIS ADMINISTRATION WILL ACCOMPLISH THINGS YOU HAVE DANCED AROUND AND AVOIDED FOR YEARS!

BarefootFreddie - 16 October 2009 02:02 PM

CC,2012—You may try and BS these folks with your long-winded inside D C talking points and links you have been instructed to use but I have worked with the engineering group currently conctructing a clean-coal facility in an area of far SW VA county called Virginia City—This facility will produce hugh amounts of electrical energy and clean natural gas while powered by materials dumped or unusable by previous coal facilities—This while surpassing emmission standards and supplying jobs now and in the future for local people whose families were used, abused, and deserted by the Greedy Corporate America you so strongly support—

This has been reported many times by the very same papers who support this forum—DO YOU EVEN BOTHER TO READ ANY OF THESE PAPERS?

The incentives you mention are already in place—Your ideas of “let’s wait another 10 years” or “Give Corporate America more tax breaks or More of American tax money”, Follow Lock-Step with todays GOP ,who have lost both there vision of what’s best for America and it’s people-Todays GOP is about lining their pockets and what is best for Greedy CEOs and the Wealthy—At the expense of Health-Reform, Global Warming, and the true welfare of ALL American people—

YO’ BIGGEST FEAR IS THAT OBAMA AND THIS ADMINISTRATION WILL ACCOMPLISH THINGS YOU HAVE DANCED AROUND AND AVOIDED FOR YEARS!

What is with the continual rudeness?

Nobody pays me nor tells me where to get my info.  I used the Congressional site, so if you doubt the legitimacy, then that is on Congress not me.  Maybe the Congress is putting out bad info?  I am sorry if the CBO summary is too long winded for you, or if I have confused you with the Democrat controlled CBO’s summary.

I am glad to see you tell us that you work for a company that hopes to financially benefit from passage of this bill.  That clears some things up for us.

I didn’t mention incentives, so why the urge to falsely attribute something to me that I didn’t say?

Do you not believe the CBO’s findings?

Nobody is dancing around anything.  I do not belive Cap & Trade is good for America and calmly explained why. 

While I understand you have a financial stake in this scam, many people are going to be hard-pressed to afford the resulting price increases that will come with it, or the resulting job losses.

Do you have anything to refute the CBO?  That is the governments official site.

To say I have been instructed to use anything is a bald faced lie.

You seem quite willing to ignore the cost increases and job losses that are outlined in the governments own report, and choose to shill for your friends at this company you support.

Unfortunately, many people will be hurt by the very thing you so angrily support.

Freddie, how will our companies compete with China & India if they do not have to follow the same rules this bill will place on our employers?

What’s happening in Virginia City sounds awesome as I am well aware of how that part of the state has been ravaged for coal and iron ore.  I fear that the Virginia City example is not happening all across the country.  I’m a big supporter of clean energy and domestic oil consumption.  If any American companies get bigger from this movement, I hope they act more responsibly than some of the past.

The environment is one issue on which I rarely share views with the right, and hardly never with the GOP.  But tax deductions do incentivize businesses to do things (penalties do too I guess) and, often in the long run, increase tax revenues due to increasing business base and employment levels.

We must do something to get people back to work and I’m not reading about too many wind/solar farms popping up.  I simply think that the Virginia City clean coal plant should be up and running before Congress acts.  Then again, if incentives are already in place, why would we need a derivatives market?  Maybe Congress has done enough already.

I don’t take instructions from anybody either.  Ask my wife.  And DC is the last place you’ll ever find me.

Increase costs to business = increase costs to consumers…Econ 101.

2012—Sweatshops, Poison Baby Fprmula, Laed Based Products, Sub-Human Wages, Poison Dog Food, Favored Trade Tariffs, Low Import Fees—-Just exactly when has China or India followed ANY rules placed on our employers??

I think that’s the point, Freddie.  If Chinese and Indian businesses are already not playing fair and whipping the US in the global marketplace, then how is increasing costs on US businesses helping level the playing field?

CC—I included you in my post only because you seem to follow 2012’s leads-(check your own posts)—I have lived and worked with the people in this area all my life. At one time you said you live here, thrn mentioned living in S.C.—Your posts and links seemed to favor the Right and more or less talk down to the local people—-All I ask of you is to be fair and unbiased in your posting—-This forum has been hi-jacked by political rants and myself and many of the local folks I talk with are extremely tired of this, when this should be a forum for local concerns and news—-It’s time to tone down all this political BS and I simply wanted to give the people of this area a voice against this daily Right-Wing attack and distortion of truths and facts by Drive-By Trolls

Econ 101—Increase CEO’s Bonuses, Lay-offs, Wall Street cheating, NOT paying people a living wage,Pass laws to protect the Wealthy’ Separate people by class- EQUALS a Nation Destroyed from within—

2012—We level the field the American Way—By offering better and affordable Education, Take pride in what we produce, Stop Useless Wars and Nation Building, An equal day’s pay for a good day’s work, Penalties and higher taxes for Corporations who move operations and jobs offshore, stop Wallstreet cheats and Golden Bonuses for Corporate CEOs, Stop spending Billions to be the World Police and sacrificing young American lives to nations who do not want us there, Work together and stop this American Class Warfare, Etc.—-World economy works in cycles and if you pay attention China’s Market is steadily Dropping—Use the Billions we are sending to rebuild the infrastrcture of foriegn nations to provide for our own American People who are doing without—Stop spending a hugh amount of our GDP to line the pockets of Insurance Company CEOs—-etc. etc.—I could go on but I hope some of the others on this forum will post some ideas for you—

I have learned that trying to teach a Pig to sing simply wastes my time; and annoys the Pig—

I hear what you’re saying.  I am not 2012 just as you are not planks.  I was born, raised and lived in SWVA for 35 years of my life.  On state and local matters, I think you’ll find that I have rarely chimed in and when I have chimed in, I’ve written very little.

The issues you list (Increase CEO’s Bonuses, Lay-offs, Wall Street cheating, NOT paying people a living wage, Pass laws to protect the Wealthy’ Separate people by class) will destroy a country from within…I agree.  But these things will not be fixed with Cap & Trade.  My point is simply that increasing costs on energy producers will increase costs to every entity they sell energy to, including you, me, our families, friends, businesses and grocery stores.

“Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket… they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers.” - Barack Obama

I respect a different perspective and thanks for the info on the Virginia City project, I was unaware of it.

If Cap & Trade is so bad why are so many of the largest Utilities supporting Cap & Trade?
Example Duke Energy, PG&E, American Electric Power

Also why have so many of the largest companies in the US dropped out of the Chamber of
Commerce because of Chambers stand against Cap & Trade?

Thanks CC—But how do we explain the more than 30% increase in electrical rates over the past 13 months, with even another rate increase requested this period? All this with NO Cap & Trade—- And I sure haven’t seen any energy stockholders bolting over fear of Cap and Trade—

I believe a phase-in of C&P within limits is needed—-This alone would push new technology—

If you get a chance, take a look at the Coal Field Express (CFX) on our VDOT website—A huge expressway linking Tn., Ky., Va., and W.VA thru the Coalfields using Public and Private Engineering—-YOU SHOULD RECOGNIZE SOME OF THE SMALL TOWNS AND COMMUNITIES—If you remember Grundy, VA. VDOT and the Corps of Engineers have removed a mountain and moved the entire town across the LaVisa River—A true Engeneering Marvel!

Great Question, fromtheslide

Sorry,CC—That website home is http://www.virginiadot.org. Take a look at some of the bridge and highway changes in your old home area.

BarefootFreddie - 16 October 2009 04:45 PM

2012—We level the field the American Way—By offering better and affordable Education, Take pride in what we produce, Stop Useless Wars and Nation Building, An equal day’s pay for a good day’s work, Penalties and higher taxes for Corporations who move operations and jobs offshore, stop Wallstreet cheats and Golden Bonuses for Corporate CEOs, Stop spending Billions to be the World Police and sacrificing young American lives to nations who do not want us there, Work together and stop this American Class Warfare, Etc.—-World economy works in cycles and if you pay attention China’s Market is steadily Dropping—Use the Billions we are sending to rebuild the infrastrcture of foriegn nations to provide for our own American People who are doing without—Stop spending a hugh amount of our GDP to line the pockets of Insurance Company CEOs—-etc. etc.—I could go on but I hope some of the others on this forum will post some ideas for you—

I have learned that trying to teach a Pig to sing simply wastes my time; and annoys the Pig—

Cute pig comment, I may borrow it.

Freddie I agree with parts of your statement.

More focus on education will go a long way to preparing our students to compete in a global economy.  I would go so far to say that I believe education costs should be a 100% tax write-off through a Masters Degree, and I know that will raise the ire of my conservative friends.

I can agree that we should not have gone into Iraq and instead have focused on getting Bin Laden.

If we are not going to go full force in Afganistan, then bring our troops home.

I would have no problem with closing our European base and the bases in Japan & S. Korea.  Europe has been able to pump billions into their social programs for decades because we have been largely covering their costs for military protection.  It is time for them to pick up their own tab and allow us to focus our financial resources on our own issues.

A question I have about your proposal for an increase in corporate taxes is this:

If the US already has the second highest corporate tax rates what would the impact of more taxes & penalties be on American consumers? 

Corporations are not going to absorb that increase cost.  When they are hit with additional costs, they simply pass that cost increase onto us consumers in the form of higher prices.

If we hit them hard enough they will simply move their headquarters offshore.  That is what Halliburton did to avoid the increased cost & scrutiny.  Their headquarters are now Dubai.

Like I said before, I do favor developing alternative fuel sources.  This could be done be allowing development & implementation to be a 100% tax write off.  Companies are smart enough to know they would benefit by making the switch in tax savings during the transition, and having a more cost effective operation when they finished the transition.

You have never touched the earths natural cooling & heating cycles that have taken place for millions of years. 

I think we can change a lot without harming American families with a punitive Cap & Trade bill.  The associated price increases are going to hit us all very hard, and if you read that CBO report, it states that low income families will be hardest hit by the increased costs.

Not to mention the jobs lost.  American companies products will cost more than foreign producers, so the forein companies will have an unfair advantage.  Our workers will suffer.

I believe the companies that bailed on the Chamber of Commerce did so, because they secured waivers to protect themselves from Cap & Trade restrictions in exchange for their support of the legislation.

Breaks Interstate Park; I got into ‘no good’ there once.

I know about AEP hiking rates lately but also didn’t know about the Virginia City gig.  Who’s paying for that?

Great question, from the slide.  I can’t piece together what’s in it for them.  2012 might have a point on waivers.

2012-Corporations are not going to absorb that increase cost.  When they are hit with additional costs, they simply pass that cost increase onto us consumers in the form of higher prices.

If we hit them hard enough they will simply move their headquarters offshore.  That is what Halliburton did to avoid the increased cost & scrutiny.  Their headquarters are now Dubai.

I THINK I COVERED HOW TO PUNISH CORPORATIONS FOR THIS OFFSHORE CRAP IN MY POST YOU ARE RESPONDING TO—BY THE WAY, DIDN’T WE HAVE A PREVIOUS VICE-PRESIDENT WHO WAS QUITE CLOSE AND HAD HUGH ECONOMIC AND BOND TIES TO THIS HALIBURTON COMPANY YOU MENTIONED NOW IN DUBAI?? I CAN’T TOTALLY RECALL BUT I THINK THEY MAY HAVE HAD A FEW SMALL CONTRACTS IN IRAQ AND PROBABLY MADE A FEW DOLLARS, AND ARE STILL PROFITING SLIGHTLY THRU THIS WAR AND REBUILDING—I THINK MANY OF THESE ‘SMALL’ PROJECTS MAY HAVE BEEN AWARDED THRU NO-BID—-NOW IF I COULD REMEMBER WHO THAT V.P. WAS—