I was speaking from personal knowlege and experience about what is happening to our system in Canada. My elderly mother (80) WAS healthy until she caught pneumonia.  She ended up in hospital for four days of IV treatment and came out feeling better but weak.  Four days later she started running a high fever and dehydrated very fast.  It took the hospital three weeks to finally admit to us that she had picked up a blood infection while she was in the previous time - it damn near killed her. You don’t expect to go to the hospital and come out sicker than when you went in but if happened to her.  I then found out that this infection is being fought in hospitals right across Canada.  I have family in almost every Province.  Because of the drain on our health care system new hospitals are rare. To cut funding our Provincil government privatized the cleaning staff so now we have non union workers who are not trained properly and working for such low wages they cannot keep up with the cleaning.  The food is garbage - we brought outside food in for mom and the doctors and nurses are run off their feet.  My wife went to change my mother’s bed when she was there and it turned out the sheets had already been used (privatized the laundry as well). This happened in February and my mother is just getting back on her feet now.

When I heard you being offered the kind of health care program we have I decided to try and warn Americans that it does not work! Our system is falling apart and mark my words America, if you think your country is in debt now - just wait.  Go to your worst emergency room in the USA and times it by 3 or 4 - that is the level we have been reduced to because of the costs.

I am a Canadian trying to get the honest word out to all of you.  Trying to tell you from experience that kind of health care is not what you want. My great-grandchildren will be paying the debt for this health care long after I am gone and it is my biggest shame.  DON’T DO IT AMERICA!!  WHAT YOU HAVE IS TEN TIMES BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE HERE!

America should be looking north as an example of what you DO NOT want to do.  Our taxes are ridiculous up here to pay for our health care. We produce oil and gas here, but pay $5.00 a gallon for gas.  Over $2.00 of that is straight tax.  In BC we pay an additional 14% tax on everything we purchase - that goes straight to the government - we have high property taxes and we can’t write off anything on our houses - we gained nothing from the concept but enourmous debt.  Our schools are falling apart, my grandchildren are being taught out of text books - many of which are 20 years old. Heathier” I don’t think so ... most of our physical activity programs have been cut out of the schools as well and many of our social programs have been slashed.
You know how we defend and protect our northern waters? As soon as we find out there is a ship up there that did not ask permission to go through we send our protection out right away.  They throw Canadian flags at the boats that are in our waters to remind them that they are in our waters.  THIS IS THE TRUTH! Our military has been so guted it is smaller than the Ontario police force and we can’t afford to keep one ship up north to personally remind folks to stay out of our waters.  I bet Russia is sure scared of us when all we can do is drop flags on them!  Go ahead and laugh - I know I sure did when I say the documentary on CBC that showed us what was happening.  I don’t think the government was happy that they ran it but I sure laughed ...

Cambo, you have to understand that if you disagree or post something that is contrary to what “John” believes, he will attack you and call your information irrelevant.  I personally enjoyed the comments made, as well as the sites you provided.  A different prespective and I do believe you are from where you say you are from. Thanks for the post.

roadchamps - 28 October 2008 08:44 PM

Cambo, you have to understand that if you disagree or post something that is contrary to what “John” believes, he will attack you and call your information irrelevant.

As opposed to Dan or Gordy?  Or maybe Wythevillemom?  No others have done that have they?  They have never attacked or belittled others have they?  Never tried to bully people to the point of keeping others from posting?  John has posted his opinion and like others questioned whether some might have ulteriour motives in their posts rather than simply backing a particular candidate.  It is a heated debate and with the advance of the internet, this is a great way for the politicians from all parties to cheaply and anonymously have surrogates post.  If Cambo is part of that, I don’t know.

I think “attacked” is a bit harsh.  So is bullying.  You’ll find that the only people I get a bit short-tempered with are the ones I have to go back and forth with half a dozen times because they choose to misinterpret or misconstrue what I say, or skirt around the actual issue I’m trying to discuss.

Dan East - 29 October 2008 11:22 AM

I think “attacked” is a bit harsh.  So is bullying.  You’ll find that the only people I get a bit short-tempered with are the ones I have to go back and forth with half a dozen times because they choose to misinterpret or misconstrue what I say, or skirt around the actual issue I’m trying to discuss.

I agree that attacked is a bit harsh.  However, there are people who have attacked and bullyed and belittled.  I don’t think John fits into this catergory.

I like seeing the different views and in fact, like having someone argue an opposite view but get short-tempered myself with the put-downs(like drinking kool-aid).  I think we get a truer view of the positions with the back and forth.

We too enjoy the excange of information in Canada that goes on during our election process.  I have to tell you that in the 1960’s we had a young fellow show up on our political scene. His name was Pierre Trudeau and some of you may remember him.  He was one of our best known Prime Ministers in the world.  Why? Because he was young, the women thought he was good looking, but he would talk the birds out of the trees!  This man was an orator.  We lost all perspective.  He offered a change none of us could refuse!  Free health care, more social programs and best of all - sharing the wealth! He sold us on the plan that we were all going to be better off if we followed him!  And we did .... and it was the biggest mistake of our lives. He was a smart man - I will give him that but I am ashamed to say my great grandchildren will be paying long after I am dead for the two times I gave him my vote based on what he offered.  At the time I never had anything else to compare what he was offering to.  There was no internet - there was no way to reach out into the world and take a look at it.  I believe that everyone should be entitled to health care and when we go to the USA we buy insurance - and the couple of times we were unfortunate to be able to use it we were truly amazed at how good the care was.  Go to the nearest emergency room that serves those of your country who do not have insurance and I guarantee you will get a look at what we have here.  It is truly terrible.  After a couple of terms of this “wonderful road to social programs” a homely little man by the name of Joe Clarke beat Trudeau out but held a minority government.  He won on the fact that he quickly saw the failings in the road that the Trudeau bandwagon had put us on.  Our debt had increased so fast and boy did those who had the know how figure out how to make the most of our new programs! Clarke told us that we would pay now or pay dearly later for what was happening and he was right.  Not enough of us “got it” (though I can say I did by that time) so he was brought in with a minority government.  It did not take long for the other parties to gang up on him and we were dragged through another election and Trudeau won again. Trudeau “the star” was able to win enough over to his side in the election and took power again and here we are today.
I liked Trudeau but I did not like the fact that I let myself be manipulated by his charisma rather than using my common sense.  Long after I am dead my children and grandchildren and great grandchildren will be paying the cost of the road we took to social programs.  The system is easily frauded, and I stated in the letter I have posted anywhere I can the truth.  You folks, are about the only ones who cared to ask about what I told you.  I have received a lot of rather nasty messages but that is from those who are on your “train to nowhere”.
Canadians were so taken by the rock star politition that we lost our brains.  Please America - take your heart out of this election and find your brain before next Tuesday.  I have to tell you that both sides have stretched the truth, but there is only one side that is being backed by big money and if you bring a party into power that is going to take you down the road we are on the middle class will pay the highest price because we are the majority of tax payers.  At least Hilary had a more tempered plan and the experience to use when it came to making decisions.

Cambo please list for us links that show how you are trying to change the health care system in Canada.

I was looking for forums to discuss health care when I got back from holidays.  American politics are so interesting. I do not know how you folks do it out there! When I saw that Hilary did not make it and I started researching this new fellow I realized that what he was trying to sell you is what we have here. I googled for forums and only two came up. Yours and one at a place called Care 2. I have had my hands full there and then my daughter took a look at it and I guess I am right smack in the middle of a tree huggers forum so there is some exchange but most of them are from California and Democratic ... Its a good place and I will continue on there I think as they do have some good causes.
I wish, I truly wish I had this means of researching and communicating back in the 60’s and I have been really slow at learning this one. Canada has lived under the wing of your great country all of our existance and we owe you a lot.  Besides, being retired I kind of miss the exchanges I was able to have at work. Keeps my mind active.
There are private clinics starting to open up here that the government made an attempt to stop and is now letting go.  My pension is a good one but when I turn 65 the cost to me (for medication etc.) is based on a sliding scale - again - I am middle class so it does not help me much. I know that in the next few years I will have to sell my house to accomodate our continuing health care because I will not be able to keep bearing the cost and I am not complaining about that. Worked hard so that we would be all right. What really bugs me is all the years I worked really for nothing because those who didn’t lived off my back and will still get it for free and I will have to pay. Only in Canada eh?

Links to change it? Instead, some of us are voluntarily reverting back to the system you have there. Everyone will still get health care here but those of us who can will pay to get better health care. There are all kinds of stories you will find in our newspapers about Private health care clinics opening up here.  My daughter had real problems with her tonsils (she’s an adult with four kids - had them taken out and anyway needed more surgery because it went bad) Was told she would have to wait over a year and was getting throat infections so bad my wife and I couldn’t stand to see her suffer. We put the $2000.00 up to get the surgery done in a Private clinic and it took about two weeks to get her in.
As I said the government tried to stop them but has given up.  All they are really doing now is trying to maintain the mess we have made of our system but I think it will eventually collapse. Again, those of us who can pay will pay only now we will pay both ways.
Just found out that my wife’s aunt in Manitoba is very ill - needs a valve or two replaced in her heart and was on the list and bumped there for over a year. Surgery was supposed to be last week and was cancelled again so the family is thinking about taking up donations and sending her your way for the surgery.  We are afraid she is not going to live long enough here to see it.  She is in her seventies and another odd thing I have noticed is that us older folk are being bumped for the younger ones. Guess that makes sense as we have lived our lives and she does not have the money to pay to go elsewhere.
Sorry folks I have kept reposting and now find I can just update ... lots to learn!

Cambo,

I am curious how you choose which forums to post in.